As a set designer, I feel incredibly fortunate to have been part of “Gotham” and “The Gilded Age.” Each project has allowed me to create distinct worlds that reflect the struggles and triumphs of their characters. Working with visionary writers like Lauren LeFranc, who brings such originality and grace to every scene, is a dream come true.
The Penguin has proven itself to be a multi-faceted triumph. It offers an engaging character narrative, shedding fresh insights on a figure often overlooked. Even with numerous Batman narratives available, readers were taken aback by the intricate portrayal of Gotham’s criminal underbelly. A key contributor to this innovative perspective is Kalina Ivanov, a seasoned production designer.
Ivanov is an accomplished production designer who has made a name for herself in the entertainment industry with an impressive past. She honed her skills on productions such as the iconic American thriller, “The Silence of the Lambs.” Lately, she’s been involved in projects like “Lovecraft County” and “The Boys in the Boat,” using her unique perspectives to bring both the past and present to vivid life. Her debut in comic book media comes with “The Penguin,” but she’ll be back soon, as she’s already been chosen to work on season two of “Peacemaker.
An Interview With Kalina Ivanov:
What drew you to this as a project?
It’s my first project inspired by a comic book, and the reason I chose it is my deep affection for Batman. I’ve always been particularly fond of Christopher Nolan’s portrayal before Matt Reeves, but I must admit that Tim Burton’s Batman also holds a special place in my heart. Among all comic heroes, Batman has always been my favorite character, so I followed his journey from Tim Burton to Chris Nolan and then watched Matt Reeves’s The Batman as soon as it was released, and I found it fantastic. So, when I received the call for this project, despite my limited experience with comic book characters, I was surprised. However, they were looking for a practical design style that I’m well-versed in, which made perfect sense once I landed the job, and working with Lauren and Matt only confirmed why I was chosen for this role as the designer of this show.
In reference to your work on both this project and the second season of “Peacemaker,” it seems you’ve emerged as a key figure in shaping the visual style that DC Comics characters now have on-screen.
These two ventures are strikingly distinct from each other. One is a comedy, while the other is as bleak as it gets, especially with reference to “The Penguin”. However, I find it exhilarating to push my boundaries and experiment with novel experiences, which I truly cherish. I’ve nicknamed myself The Accidental DC Designer because I’ve essentially stumbled upon this field, but I’m enjoying it immensely as it enables me to engage in activities I wouldn’t have otherwise. As a designer, I’ve made a conscious effort to explore various genres throughout my career—comedy, drama, musicals, and more. I actively seek out change. In the past five years, I’ve been particularly drawn to fantasy and period pieces. “The Penguin” presented a fantastic chance to explore a new path, venture into uncharted territory.
As a fellow enthusiast, I must say, your passion for fantasy is truly infectious! In the realm of our shared storytelling, do you sometimes find yourself weaving threads of the extraordinary into the tapestry of the real, even within a series that’s deeply rooted in reality?
Indeed, it’s a resounding affirmative. Essentially, I not only ensured that the characters and their histories were well-developed, making them relatable and authentic, but also constantly pondered over the Batman mythos in relation to Greek mythology. Intriguingly, I perceived Batman and Superman as contemporary counterparts to ancient Greek deities, sparking my curiosity about integrating this kind of mythological essence into the Penguin’s narrative. Particularly, the final scene in the series finale was heavily influenced by Greek mythology, as evidenced by the “Hounds of Zeus” reference I subtly introduced to my colleague, who reacted with a chuckle upon hearing it.
In other words, some folks might recognize them as Harpies, but they hail from Greek mythology. I proposed an idea that in the final scene of the deserted hotel penthouse, the Penguin would be guarded by numerous enraged Greek women, depicted much like in renowned paintings. This was quite intriguing, you see? The journey to this concept was engaging, and what I meant was, I enjoy the chance to think beyond my comfort zone when it comes to set design. He provided me with the freedom to consider the sets metaphorically, not just as environments, but as entities carrying a deeper significance behind them.
I don’t mean it in an intellectual way; I meant it in a visceral way, because the Greeks really believed in, in, in, in the gods, and they really believed that mythology. It was very real to them and Batman and Superman are very real to a big segment of the population. They’re just equally as important to them in their daily life or in their sense of fantasy and a sense of enjoyment. And I thought, oh, I just would love to bring this together somehow and visually. It’s very visceral. It’s very interesting.
Even in a show that doesn’t necessarily have a superhero in it?
Indeed, you’re correct, but let me clarify something intriguing: Batman isn’t just a comic book character; he’s Bruce Wayne in disguise. What I adore about him is the duality – part superhero, part real person. There’s an undeniable coolness in the fact that Batman straddles these worlds. I’ve always been a Batman fan, and it’s hard not to find his character amusing. Interestingly enough, while working on a movie titled “The Boys in the Boat” with George Clooney directing, I happened to learn that he had portrayed one of the many Batman characters. It was quite humorous, sharing this common connection through Batman. Somehow, it felt like Batman was the link between us, professionally speaking.
Regarding “The Boys in the Boat” and historical dramas, “The Penguin” might seem like a contemporary story, but it’s deeply rooted in history and urban transformation. Can you explain your process of merging the contemporary with the historical aspects in this novel?
What a fascinating query! Living in New York City for 40 years has given me a unique perspective. It’s a place where history intertwines with the present, offering an extraordinary blend of styles and architectural designs. From classic, period buildings to cutting-edge, state-of-the-art structures, it’s a melting pot that teaches one about harmonizing different aesthetics effectively. This city serves as a constant source of inspiration for me in my design endeavors, reflecting its dynamic, fast-paced lifestyle and the urgency that resonates with The Penguin. Unlike other cities where life moves at a slower pace, New York is always in motion, making every moment vibrant and intense.
Additionally, having a valuable discussion with James Chinlund, the production designer of The Batman, was incredibly beneficial for me. He is both a friend and a colleague, and our conversation about his methods for The Batman and the architectural history he drew upon was not only informative but also deeply resonated with me. I aimed to maintain that same mindset while exploring a different part of Gotham, but I remained faithful to Matt Reeves’ and James Chinlund’s vision for The Batman, continuing their design approach in my work.
Initially, I assumed “The Batman” was a film set in a historical period due to the vintage cars seen on the streets. However, director Matt Reeves clarified that it’s actually a contemporary production. Upon further reflection, I realized the reason for its retro feel: many of the vehicles brought in by James Chinlund were from the 1990s. Additionally, the comic book “Year One,” which served as the basis for the film, was written in 1986 and portrays a New York City atmosphere reminiscent of the 70s and 80s. As a result, the movie incorporates numerous references to those decades while maintaining its contemporary setting. This unique blend of modern elements with nods to the past creates an intriguing visual style that offers a deeper understanding of Gotham city.
It’s amusing that you bring up phones, as it can be quite jarring when a character suddenly whips out an iPhone, instantly transporting us to the present era.
In a similar vein to how Batman’s depiction has evolved over time, we aimed to capture the enduring essence of characters like Penguin, Batman, and Catwoman in our design. Instead of strictly adhering to the comic books, we wanted to embody the spirit that these characters represent. As you can observe in comics, the way Batman was drawn in the 50s and 60s contrasts greatly with his depiction in the 80s or even now, and this is what we, as designers, are trying to do – capture the fundamental quality of these characters that transcends time.
When discussing the growth of the Penguin’s influence, you’ve mentioned Oz’s apartment quite frequently. How do you ensure that his character remains consistent as he ascends to the higher ranks of Gotham’s elite?
As a devoted fan, I’ve always been aware that our protagonist, from the get-go, was destined for a humble beginning, eventually ascending to a penthouse, and aspiring to emulate Carmine Falcone. When I initially sketched out ideas for his luxurious abode, they were sophisticated and stunning, but with a hint of decay. Yet, Matt Reeves, in a stroke of genius, countered, “no, no, he doesn’t have taste. He’s the Penguin.” This insightful remark made me reassess my entire approach, emphasizing the need to maintain consistency with the Penguin’s character as a brash gangster devoid of refined taste.
The Gotham that you were handed was in many ways falling apart. The Penguin begins immediately after the disastrous flooding. How do you go about creating places that are both completely ruined and lived in?
As a New Yorker living through the ’70s and ’80s, I was fortunate to witness the city’s incredible transformation from urban decay to recovery. The struggle of a government failing its citizens was palpable, creating a stark contrast between then and now. Even Hurricane Sandy, which hit a decade later, highlighted the persistent class divide in our city.
Working closely with our lead art director, Debbie Wheatley, I delved deep into studying the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina’s floods. Debbie devised a grading system for the various affected zones, with areas experiencing the most flood damage rated as 5 and those with the least, as 1. This system was primarily based on FEMA guidelines, including their charts, signs, and identification systems. Throughout our production, we consistently used authentic FEMA identifiers. It was both captivating and heart-wrenching to witness these images and understand the devastation they represent. Many of the visuals we produced featured cars and furniture piled high on the streets, reminiscent of Katrina’s aftermath. This phenomenon occurs when a vast volume of water floods a street, then recedes, leaving behind mud and debris in its path. Among the most powerful images was the sight of car piles in the Katrina flood images, which we meticulously replicated for our show.
So, I wanted to ask about the art that’s on display in the show. There are so many classical pieces on the walls. What’s the process of determining what’s going to go where and deciding what this person would hang in their home?
It seems you’re discussing Carmine’s mansion, don’t you? That’s where the grand frescoes are found, and I have a unique perspective about him that I’d like to share. You see, Carmine strikes me as a third-generation gangster who has been through prestigious schools and likely holds an Ivy League education. He gives off an impression of sophistication on the outside, but he’s cold and hollow inside. There’s a lot of facade with him, yet he carries a heavy weight.
In our series, we delve deeply into this character; despite his demise in “The Batman”, his past is extensively explored within ours. While hints are given about him in “The Batman”, it’s in our series where his true nature unfolds – a man who wreaks havoc on the women in his life, from his own daughter to his wife, and many others as well. I felt compelled to express this character’s complexities, and I wanted to convey his inner corruption. On the surface, he is portrayed by John Turturro in the film and Mark Strong in our series, both tall, handsome, and elegantly dressed men. However, beneath that polished exterior lies decay, which is symbolized by the cold, stiff, and frozen frescoes in our series. These frescoes are aesthetically pleasing, exotic even, but they lack emotion, much like the character himself. This was intentional as I wanted to create a sense of detachment, conveying that this is a display – a showcase of power. The fact that these ancient Italian frescoes have been transported and placed on the walls serves to emphasize the owner’s power.
In my story, there were numerous layers, prompting me to delve deeply into the character’s psyche. Each setting serves as a canvas for their past, and I strive to reveal their essence. I ponder if I’ve managed to do justice to their history and inner selves. Frankly, I sometimes wonder if I’ve achieved this goal, but in this instance, it seems the readers are captivated. That makes me incredibly pleased.
How does one go about designing scenarios ranging from the lofty heights of Gotham’s elite to its hidden underbelly, such as the clandestine drug manufacturing sites like Oz controls, which are typically concealed from ordinary view, much like they are portrayed on shows like Law & Order? In other words, how can one create these settings in a manner that feels authentic without veering into excessive vulgarity or sensationalism?
In your message, you’re expressing great admiration for the writers, particularly Lauren and her team, due to their extensive research when crafting specific settings, specifically the trolley depot. You mentioned that this was one of your favorite sets, and it wasn’t until halfway through preparation that you learned about it since it appears in the 5th script. Upon discovering it, you were amazed and found out that New York had a trolley system until the late 1950s. The depot, initially uninteresting to you, was transformed into a cathedral-like space when you proposed vaulted ceilings for it, an idea Lauren appreciated. This concept became a significant visual element in the show you were creating, as much of it takes place under subway tracks and bridges.
Was there ever a case where the set design choices, such as the convincing-looking fireplace in Oz, significantly improved upon the original script?
In my opinion, I offered an innovative twist to our project – the concept of a secret passage. Initially, in the script, the method for locating the trolley depot was via a manhole, and I had reservations about that. It seemed too straightforward, lacking intrigue. To make it more engaging, I proposed the idea of them discovering this hidden passage instead. My initial thought was an electric box setup, leading to a series of these boxes. This sparked further discussion, and we eventually developed it into a secret location beneath a bridge. The conversation fluctuated, but ultimately led us to agree that going beyond the manhole would create a more exciting adventure.
In the course of our discussions and by posing questions like “What if we try this?”, we discovered creative solutions – both design and visual ones – that initially hadn’t crossed our minds when we initiated the project. This is the magic of collaboration, exploration, and inquisitiveness, as it turned out even an element as simple as a manhole ended up playing a role in our visual narrative, albeit its position was changed. Such instances were plentiful throughout the process.
As a dedicated fan, I can’t help but share my thoughts on the creative process behind the show. From the get-go, there were specific locations I proposed to Matt and Lauren that turned out to be pivotal, and they held significance throughout our journey together. It was a thrilling opportunity for me to contribute in ways that weren’t always scripted, but rather, allowed me to bring my ideas to life through the characters’ unique details.
Did you feel you were creating an antagonistic energy, even in the set design?
As a fan, I find it captivating to embody both the downtrodden and affluent characters in this show. It’s a unique opportunity to construct diverse worlds, and having Sophia and the Penguin navigate between these realms is intriguing. The tension between their personalities and their power struggle is compelling, and the contrast between their environments visually enhances that battle of wills – something I found incredibly stimulating as a designer.
Absolutely! In the narrative, we see the distinction between the privileged and less fortunate, while also focusing on interconnecting three crucial female characters. These characters, skillfully crafted by Lauren from the Oz setting, include the protagonist’s mother, Sophia, who transforms into an adversary; his girlfriend, Eve; and another significant woman.
Is there a question that you’ve been dying to answer that no one has asked you yet?
Hmm. Oh, well, OK. So, another idea that I contributed to the show was in the Jazz Club—the fallen chandelier—you know, that was not scripted. That was not there. And I think that was probably the question that you touched upon, which is a very interesting question of “what are some of the original ideas that were not scripted that the designer brings to the table,” and that is something that, you know, happened to me in Lovecraft Country and happened to me again on this show. And I really cherish those kinds of shows where I’m allowed to bring original ideas and say, “Hey, what do we do?” And then the writer embraces it and writes it into the script, and it becomes a scene, and that is very gratifying.
You really touched upon it, and you asked me that question earlier, and that is a great question because no one’s asked me that question, and that is something. And you know, it’s very uncomfortable for me to start saying “I did this” and “I did that,” because it’s not like that. It’s collaborative. Some people will allow you to bring a lot of original ideas, and some people will not, and that’s not the truth, you know? And it’s wonderful when an artist is allowed to think outside of the box, and be very free, and bring a lot of new ideas. Lauren is a magical person. Really, not just very talented, but a magical person. She’s just one of the nicest and most composed and just a really wonderful collaborator and really a very talented writers’ room, and you can see her in print in every episode. I’m very happy for her. I’m very happy for all of us, but I’m very, very happy for her to tackle this predominantly male world and do such an interesting take on it.
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2024-11-11 19:05